Roaming Profiles - Only move changed files?

[MacAddict]

Hello,

I'm just looking into roaming profiles but I'm a bit confused about this.

Do roaming profiles only move changed files or the whole profile (including "My Documents", "Desktop", etc) everytime a user:

a) logs in to the same pc
b) logs in to a different pc for the first time

I went to the class and I was under the impression that it only caches a file once it is opened.


On the book, 3rd edition, chapter 8:

Page 370:

The good news with Windows 2000/Windows XP roaming profiles is that only the new and changed files are specifically moved around the network.

Page 375:

Because My Documents is part of the profile, there is the extra burden of lugging all the files in My Documents back and forth across the network each time a user logs on.

Which one is correct?

Thanks,

[AdamV]

My understanding (right or wrong) is that on a PC the first time you get everything at logon, second time you get changes [made on another PC by definition].
At logoff, only changes are copied to the server.

You may be thinking of what happens when you use redirected folders with caching - this uses the offline folders method to make the files temporarily available offline (distinct from files the user chooses themselves which are classed as "permanently available").
This ought to just make them available when touched, but so many processes can 'touch' a file enough that this is fairly moot in reality, I think (eg browsing a folder with preview turned on can be enough to make it cache all the files. go figure)

[MacAddict]

So you are saying that with Roaming profiles, when the user logs in for the first, it gets everything from that profile (including My documents, etc). When he logs off, only the changes.

In the pre-windows 2000 world, it would upload and download everything at every login/logoff?

I thought that I heard Jeremy say that with roaming profiles, it only caches the files opened (or touched).

[JerryC]

Roaming Profiles files are actually easy to understand if you break down the processes.

New Roaming Profile
===============
1) When you activate a roaming user profile path on the user's account, then the next time that user logs on, the system will start looking for the user's profile in that network path. It won't find it the first time, but the client device will create the root directory for the user on that path as they log on (we use \\UNC_To_RUP_Server\RUPDataxx$\%UserName%).

2) When the user logs off, the "Defined profile" for the user is synchronized (copied) to the server path.
[code:1]Defined Profile = Whatever is within the user's Profile folder minus the Local Settings folder contents and minus any other folders the GPO Admin decides to remove (we add a bunch of exclusions).[/code]
3) When the user logs back on (same device) the client OS synchronizes any changes from the server path back to the local device. Assuming there were no changes, then it's just a matter of the OS checking the Time/Date stamps of all the files. Locally, this typically takes milliseconds, but the server will be a bit slower.

4) When the user logs off, the OS closes the user's registry (helps to have UPHClean from Microsoft installed) and then does the Time/Date thing again. Anything created new or with a more recent Time/Date stamp gets copied from the client to the server. So this time, not everything is copied to the server path, just new or changed. As long as the user continues to use this same box, then only incremental changes are synched.

=================================

Roaming to a new device

1) The user logs onto a new system. The system will start looking for the user's profile in the assigned RUP network path. It finds one on the server, but not on the local device. Therefore it synchronizes (copies) everything from the server to the local device and then the user is logged on.

2) When the user logs off, the "Defined profile" for the user is synchronized (copied) to the server path. Anything created new or with a more recent Time/Date stamp gets copied from the client to the server.

=================================

Returing to the primary device

1) The user logs back onto their Original Device. The system will start looking for the user's profile in the assigned RUP network path. It finds one on the server AND finds one on the local device. It synchronizes (copies) from the server to the local device, but this time it only copies new items or those with a more recent Time/Date stamp.

2) When the user logs off, the "Defined profile" for the user is synchronized (copied) to the server path as follows: anything that has been created new or with a more recent Time/Date stamp gets copied from the client to the server.

==============================

You can create a bunch of scenarios to confuse the issues, but the rules are as noted above. Create whatever scenario you want (except for one) and just plug in the situation as noted above. It's either going to be starting from scratch, logging back onto the same device, logging onto a new device for the first time, and/or returning to the prime device (if there is one).

What's the exception? Try being logged onto two separate devices at the same time and then hit Logoff at the same time. It's really going to still be the scenario as noted above, but depending upon how fast the system can write to the server will depend upon what's up there. I have to imagine that this would be VERY RARE.

=================================

Problems you WILL run into:

1) User performs the first time logon on a non-prime device just after RUP is activated on their account So you get a call from a user missing a bunch if data. It thurns out that they logged onto a Non-Primary device the first time. When they return to their prime device, RUP kicks in as usual, but now it sees that the most recent set of settings is from the server (from the non-prime device). The systems brings down all those settings and Voila! they've lost all their primary settings. Try explaining what happened to an irate user who has lost data from their Desktop folder (when the sync deleted those contents) and who DID NOT follow the steps you provided to have all their data backed up.

"I know you sent several e-mails weeks in advance as well as a couple of days ago and also yesterday, I know you posted the info and processes to follow in all the company newsletters, and I know you "said" we MUST logon to our primary devices first. Well, I didn't and I also didn't backup my data because I was too busy. I just haven't had a chance to do it yet. That was 2 years worth of my job and I have to present info to upper management in 20 minutes... WHERE'S MY DATA!!!!!!!"

Try explaining to a Server Admin that their PC data just clobbered all their Server SQL configuration setups and their server maintenance for a critcal app is gone (.... bye, bye...) because they ignored the many, many warnings, e-mails, etc. and logged onto the server after getting logged onto and off their PC. [We allowed them to have their account from the RUP processes. We allowed them to Block RUP from their server using GPOs (we even create the GPOs so they could just link them in). We suggested that Server Admins start using industry standard practices of using other accounts (never to be RUPped) for their privileged accesses. We gave them months of warnings, feedback in meetings, many, many avenues, but a few just payed no attention, claimed they were too busy, etc.....and got clobbered... Sigh :cry: ]

2) Returing Files/shortcuts "A stupid shortcut keeps coming back. I delete it and two days later it's back again." Sir, are you logging onto more than one device? Yes...I am. Sir, have you deleted it from both devices as soon as you logon. Umm... No, I just see it come back every time I return to my prime device. Do I need to delete it from EVERY device. Yes sir, you must remember to delete it from every device you've ever logged onto. New devices will be fine, but not ones you've previously logged onto.

3) Temporary profiles Q: All I did was logon and now everything's gone, I've lost all my data! Can you help? A: Power down the device (using the power button), boot it up, and log back on. "Hey, it's all back! What did you do?... Just had the user shutdown and then log back on. This actually fixes 90% of Temporary profile problems. No need to hack the registry... Also NEVER EVER move the user's data from their real profile folder on that local device into the temporary profile on that same device. The TEMPORARY profile folder WILL BE ERASED as the user logs off... There goes their data and you've made things worse! The system just needs to recognise their profile folder and it sometimes doesn't do so.

================================
Rules of Thumb (sans thumb)....

1) If a system doesn't synchronise on the way in, it WILL NOT and CAN NOT synchronise with the RUP server on the way out.

2) At logon, stuff gets synched as follows: Server files --> Client files.

3) At logoff, stuff gets synched as follows: Server files <-- Client files.

================================

Good luck to you and others reading this post...

[MacAddict]

JerryC,

Thanks for your reply. It seems that this will not work on our environment, too many if's ...

Just out of curiosity, how is this different than the Pre Windows 2000 world?

[JerryC]

Other than much improved stability, the biggest difference is the algorythm they use to synchronize.

Pre-Windows 2000... basically "none".

Win2K+ updates time/date stamps to save most recent changes and only those.